Household HSBC Watch

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:58 pm      

Yes, please do check out that ad. If you read it, you'll notice that the Star financing is on installment contracts. All of Yamaha financing's installment contracts are with GE.

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:07 pm      

Sorry "Banker2" but you again have your facts wrong. This thread is regarding the "Star Financing" ads on TV. The original post states that the Star special financing is with HSBC. That is INCORRECT. The Star financing promotion is on installment contracts, through GE.

And why waste everyone's time with checking IP's? It doesn't change the facts.

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:42 pm      

B.R., see my reply to your post on the other thread.

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:34 am      

Before I retired if we did not have a sole-source contract with a company our rates were not as good. How does Yamaha handle the joint relationship bettween Yamaha, GE, and HSBC (Household Finance Corporation)? It appears as though discounts and ongoing compensation are different between Yamaha and GE than they are with Yamaha and HSBC. While both GE and HSBC say a sole-source long term relationship is better for the financing company, it does lock the manufacturer or retailer into a relationship they may not want.

For instance, during the period covered by Shea v Household it was determined that merchants and manufacturers benefits through ongoing compensation while Household, and later HSBC, credited payments one day late. They also benefitted when Household and HSBC intentionally did not mail statements, failed to post change of addresses, etc. I interviewed Mr. Shea relative to his suit. It covered the period from 1994 through 2004. Interestingly, 1994 was when Bill Aldinger took over Household International, and 2004 was almost two years after HSBC bought Household International. Consumers report that HSBC still continues these questionable practices today, thus Shea perhaps did not change anything.

That is my primary concern. In negotiating their $11 million settlement for Shea v Household, HSBC did not admit any wrong doing, which is standard operating procedure. They settled quickly, thus blocking further investigation into the matter. Further investigation would have put HSBC's contracts in a bad light. All merchants and manufacturers received part of ongoing compensation during the period covered, 1994 through 2004. To put it another way, if Household and HSBC failed to mail a statement, increased the interest rate to the default rate, collected late fees when payments were not really late, or ignored change of address notifications as an excuse to put the accounts in default Yamaha potentially could benefit from more ongoing compensation.

GE does not pay the same contract premiums that HSBC pays. GE does not approve anybody and everybody as HSBC does. Companies in bankruptcy have petitioned the courts to allow them to switch from GE to Household - HSBC because they need the extra money. The best written evidence of this for the lay person are the Mac Tools lawsuits.

Consumers find the Star - Yamaha issue confusing. In the TV commercials fine print is not readable, thus difficult to determine the intent to use GE for financing. On the Internet some Star - Yamaha ads refer people to HSBC. If dealers have a preference they will go with HSBC because they make more profit. If the customer has good credit and did their research they will finance through GE or their own bank. If the customer finances with HSBC they are buying their Star with a credit card, running the risks outlined in Shea v Household. Keep in mind the new OCC mandate to increase credit card payments above the minimum. The OCC mandate targets negative amortization and the inability to pay off credit card balances in a timely manner when only paying the minimum. While I don't favor GE, I certainly post consumer alerts about HSBC, HSBC Finance Corporation, HFC, Beneficial, and Household International.

Is Yamaha going to dump HSBC for GE? Does Yamaha use HSBC for those that can't get financing elsewhere? Did Yamaha benefit from questionable ongoing compensation from 1994 through 2004? Is there an agreement whereby GE sells the contracts to HSBC after the sale?

There are the two Yamaha customer forums, one is archived here and the other is current and seen here. It is Household International and HSBC that make Yamaha look bad. I do not know if your clarification about Star motorcycle television ads is helpful but do appreciate your position in the matter. What would be helpful is a reply which reprints the fine print from the television commercial so people can actually read it. Then we can monitor how many are financed through GE and how many are financed by HSBC, and how many are sold to HSBC by GE after the sale.

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:27 am      

Mark at HSBC Retail Services called (9/17/2005) while I was out and spoke in a condescending manner to my wife. He stated that I did business with HSBC, but not why he called. I returned his call (9/19/2005), [800-365-2027,x524], but the operator would not connect me to Mark stating that his job as a collector was only to call me.
I did not get this person's name, but she kept trying to get my social security number. She would not tell me why her company called me.
My identity theft goose bumps started itching so I refused to give my social security number.

My second call to HSBC reached a man named Reggie who also asked for my SSN, but accepted my telephone number. Turns out HSBC was looking for a person with a different middle initial and and last 4 SSN. He removed my telephone number as a wrong number. Seems their collections people call everyone who sounds like their customer and put them through what me and my wife went through. I hope this is the end of their abusive business methods toward my household.