Household HSBC Watch

Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:06 pm      

My Mother had got a loan from Beneficial for around $10,000. She got this loan when interest rates were high. After a couple of years she wanted to refinance the loan at the lower interest rates. They told her they couldn’t do any better for her. She trusted them. I told her to refinance with another loan company and she said she would think about it. Well, in Aug of 2003 she passed away. I, as her son, became the Executor of her estate which consisted of little more than the house we have lived in for 35 years. I am on SSI Disability and receive a limited income. When my mother passed away, I knew about the Beneficial loan and knew I had to contact them about her death. She was 85 years old when she died. There was no insurance on the loan.

I contacted Beneficial and asked what they needed and they told me just a copy of the death certificate. I then asked how much the payment was and where to send it because I knew it still had to be paid. They wouldn’t give me that information claiming the loan is not MY account, its my mother's. So, I sent in the death certificate and called a couple of weeks later to confirm they had it and to ask about the payments. They STILL wouldn’t tell me anything!

I finally figured out what the payments were and where to send them through old statements and canceled checks I found of my mother's. So, I started making the payments, which at the time were at around 13%-15% APR. Being on a low fixed income, I was having problems making the payments. So, for around a year, I kept calling Beneficial to see what can be done. I kept getting the same response. Its not your loan, its your mothers and we can’t help YOU. Frustrated, I started calling Beneficial EVERYDAY until I finally got in touch with someone who understood my situation. He explained to me that because the loan is not mine, but, my mothers', her account information is kept private and that’s why nobody would tell me anything. He told me to just FAX him a copy of my mothers WILL showing my named as Executor and then they can help me. I FAXED the copy right away. Again, months go by and I am still not getting anywhere with Beneficial.

I started calling Beneficial constantly, 10-15 times a day to talk with someone who could help me. After awhile I talked with someone who told me they could put me on the HARDSHIP Program. However, when I tried to apply for it, again, I was told I am NOT the account holder and I am not allowed to ask for Hardship! At this point my blood pressure started rising. It got so bad that whenever I called Beneficial, I would have nervous attacks. Severe headaches and I would shake badly after hanging up the phone from talking with Beneficial. When I say I called Beneficial, I mean I have been calling the Customer Service Number. Anyway, after MANY more telephone calls to them, I was told to send in a copy of a paper showing me as Executor from a lawyer. I contacted my lawyer and he FAXED the papers to the number they gave me. Two days later I call to check on the status of my hardship claim and they tell me that they lost the papers and they need my lawyer to refax them! WHAT? Now, at this point I am furious.

I had my lawyer re-send them the papers. After a couple of weeks they finally decided I WAS the Executor and that I was their customer by Proxy. The finally agreed and reduced the interest rate to 5%. A few weeks later I got a statement from Beneficial addressed to DECEASED (last name omitted by editor). I was appalled. I called Beneficial to have that fixed and NOBODY would do it! Every time the monthly statement came it was addressed to DECEASED. And every time I called Beneficial, they would STILL tell me I have no right to access to my mother's account. All this after I did EVERYTHING I was asked to do. Yet, The statements were coming in like that and I couldn’t get anybody to listen to me. I went to a local Beneficial Office to see if they could be any help. You see, the office my mom took her loan out from was gone. So, I sat with the manager and we found out who wrote the loan and asked him permission to change the name. He did. Now, it was back to my mother’s name. But why did I have to go out and find this man? Why couldn’t customer service do it? Anyway, one problem was solved.

The next statement came in addressed to my Mom, but in it was this listing on payments and re-payments. And the payments amount didn’t change to $100.00. I called customer Service again and they STILL wouldn’t help me. I figured by now they would have everything straight (after18 months) but they didn’t.

I did some research and found the name of the person in charge of Customer Relations. I called him and explained everything I was going through. He seemed concerned. He asked me what I wanted and I told him I wanted him to make sure that when I called Beneficial, after giving my account number, I don’t want to be told they cant talk to me about this account. I want it fixed so I am named as the owner of the account so I wouldn’t have to go through all the "bull". He agreed and I also told him I wanted a letter of apology from him. He did send me a letter the next day stating that Beneficial does NOT have a proper plan for handling my type of situation and that they were working on changing that. I figured that was the end of it, but, I was fooled again by them. You see, in the letter he explains that if I have a problem when I call Beneficial that I am to tell them to read the DIRECTIVE. Now, I did just that when I called Beneficial and the person told me I am not allowed to tell her where to look in her computer system!

Also in the letter he explains that if I still have problems to call him, but he is CERTAIN I wont have to. What a crock! So, for 20 months I have been through *beep* and back with Beneficial. I am still going through it. I haven’t even had a chance to mourn for my mom because everyday I have to deal with Beneficial. It’s not right. Giving me 0% interest just doesn’t cut it now. I want to sue Beneficial for causing me all this heartbreak and pain they have put me through for 20 months now. I want to sue them for raising my blood pressure and causing me more medical problems. I want to sue them for being so UNPROFESSIONAL when it comes to death. They are cold and heartless people. My mother was a loyal customer of Beneficial for years and paid thousands of dollars in interest to Beneficial and this is how they treat her son. I want results! If anyone could help me to sue Beneficial I would be grateful. I know my mom must be turning in her grave over this whole thing. PLEASE HELP ME!

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:05 am      

Beneficial Finance was purchased by Household International in the late 90's and operates in a manner similar to Household Finance. When they told you they have no policy in effect to deal with matters such as yours they are deceiving you. That is totally untrue.

Whether a property changes hands due to divorce, court ordered change of responsibility, death of the owner, or quit claim deed, Beneficial and HFC have policies in effect that dictate how to handle the situation. In your case they still received their payments and high interest. Any delays and modifications were added to the back end of the loan. They did not suffer, but you and your family did. They are a predatory mortgage lenders -- they always were, they still are, and will continue to be predatory.

If HSBC tolerates poor customer service and rude run-arounds such as what they did to you, then HSBC is at fault. That is part of the price they pay for buying disgraced predatory lender Household International. Obviously HSBC did not change anything, they are still not in compliance, and the same people still work at HFC and Beneficial. Does your report sound familiar? Yes it certainly does. We have similar reports on file about Household Finance (HFC) and similar tactics, from as early as 1999.

It is unfortunate that your mother was involved with these people in the first place. Perhaps you can contact a television reporter in your area. Yours is an interesting story. Here at Household - HSBC Watch we can verify and substantiate your report. We have access to individuals with similar experiences that can be a second source for any article, whether it is television or print news.

The two year horror story you describe is nothing new for Beneficial. The earliest report we have of actions of a similar nature date back to 1999. We conclude, therefore, that telling you "Beneficial does NOT have a proper plan for handling your type of situation and that they were working on changing that" is either the worst case of corporate stupidity, or - and most likely - an outright lie by Beneficial and HSBC.

Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm      

I am the person who wrote the 2-year horror story about my mom's account. Yesterday I got a call from the Customer Service Manager, he told me AGAIN there is NO process in place for my situation. He wants me to call him directly with any questions or concerns. Well, after thinking about this whole thing for a few days, I came up with the idea that since I have been given 0% interest after 20 months of pure torture just isn’t enough to justify Beneficial's handling of this account. They gave me the 0% interest a little too fast. When I asked how soon I should have got the 0%, I was told almost right away! So, for 20 months I have paid 13% interest for about a year, then they put me on the "Hardship" program and lowered the interest rate to 6% for about a year. After the way I was treated by Beneficial, I SHOULD get back ALL the interest money I paid into the loan. Don’t you agree? Even better, after all the crap they put me through, they should EAT the loan. I am presently looking for a lawyer who will help me with suing Beneficial for the lies, pain and agony they have put me through the past 20 months. In my next post, I WILL name names of everyone who has had a hand in this big lie. Once these names are published, I hope people will avoid these employees of Beneficial. They are NOT nice people and DONOT care about anything but getting their money. I plan on getting them to PAY OUT money to me! I am still upset over the whole situation and I’m sure I will be for months or years later. The Customer Service Manager tells me he doesn’t want me to get upset over this account anymore. I’m sorry I still am and WILL be! I will take your advice and contact the media about this problem. I have a close friend that works for the FOX News Network and I’m sure she would be blown away by what I have gone through. Thanks for the advice!

Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:01 pm      

The last time Household - HSBC Watch had a major story for Fox News we contacted Bill O'Reilly. When Household International was approached for their rebuttal via the Fox News research department, Household International started advertising during the O'Reilly Factor instead. The story never aired. Fair and balanced? You decide. Fox News will make money one way or the other. Some news articles or "no spin zone" pieces never air, but Fox becomes a winner either way.

Having said that, HSBC (formerly Household International) clearly does not want to answer an OCC complaint where they (HSBC) are quoted as saying the had no policy in place for dealing with your situation. The OCC adopted new predatory lending guidelines in April 2005. Your situation is clearly out of compliance.

Also please be careful with these predatory lenders. Zero percent interest could mean they are adding fees to the back end of your loan. Ask to make sure. Ask how they are handling your balance, monthly charges, etc. Your loan will come due on the due date even if Household (HSBC) modifies the terms. Beneficial and Household Finance (HFC) were sued in California and completely ignored California's ruling until they were sued again. HFC's practices became worse, according to California regulators, and they passed their predatory practices on to Beneficial, even while under scrutiny. The profits are great than the fines. Predatory mortgage lenders such as HSBC, HFC, and Beneficial do not are about compliance, regulators, customers, law suits, threats or complaints if profits are high enough.

They do care about public relations and bad press. To some extent, however, they also know that Americans quickly forget and usually within six months a problem will be forgotten. One goal of Household - HSBC Watch is to make sure the problems are not forgotten. HSBC once said, even though they had already purchased troubled predatory lender Household International, it is easier to build a new company with undamaged reputation than it is to turn around a company with a bad reputation. We are here for you as your voice in an arena where HSBC tries to tip the scales in their favor. HFC, Beneficial, Household International, and to some extent HSBC, will always have a blemished and tarnished reputation. HSBC bought their way into the game. Household International was the leader in the game. Customers and consumers lost the game every time. It's time for them to start winning.

Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:19 pm      

Did customer service call you as a result of posting your original information? (In our discussion here, we theorize that executors, guardians, and trustees all over the country have been called by HSBC customer service and public relations. with offers of solutions and corrections for account problems similar to yours.)



If you have a reasonable dialogue going with someone in the customer service department, and you were eligible for 0% interest, you may request the account be corrected retroactively. If the interest you paid is credited against the balance, it may be more valuable than having it refunded to you. Remember, you were charged interest on the whole principal balance for nearly two years, it was never reduced by the interest that you were charged and paid.

There are loan/mortgage calulators available that allow you to do a side by side comparison between two loans, with amortization tables. In your case calculate looking at the principal balance when you first became eligible for 0% and compare the interest paid at the interest rates you quoted with the balance if interest did not accrue for that period of time with the "interest" payment being credited towards the principal balance. The calculations would be estimates, but if you need help with the calculations contact us again.

Another precaution is to be sure what the term is on the loan. It won't help you much to find out that the payment your mother and later you made will not pay the principal balance within the the term. On the older loans that often resulted in a "balloon" payment that was nearly equal to the original amount borrowed.



We get reports that people aren't eligible to sue (due to binding arbitration) or they can't find an attorney to take the case because of the size of the company, time, and expense involved, even with a continguency from the awards. Cases against corporations are slow, often taking years to settle.